Post by Marɨck Løcke on Nov 16, 2011 12:11:13 GMT -5
I have an issue I've been struggling with for a while, which the decision of would massively change the site. I'm just not sure what the best option is really, so I'd like everyone's opinion on the direction we should take things. It begins with a talk about my character and I ramble quite a bit, but I promise this leads into an issue that drastically effects everyone.
It started with the fact that while I've chosen the sentinel class, it doesn't really fit how I'd envisioned my character. My character has become rather combat oriented and it somewhat seems wrong for me to have biotic, tech, and fight physically even if I don't have any combat related powers. Honestly I could do away with the biotics, which would then make me an infiltrator. That however doesn't seem like much of a solution as really there would be nothing stealthy about my character. I plan on frequently being in melee combat using a riot shield and baton in order to make my character appear like a swat officer and beat away people so I can heal teammates. This fighting in melee combat and using little to no stealth seems like the antithesis of the infiltrator. I don't even want to have tactical cloak, tech armor just feels like it would be the best power for both a swat officer and a medic to have. More importantly I want to be a medic, which in the game are always Engineers and Sentinels. With the current set up, a infiltrator cannot even choose the medicine or neural shock skills.
Of course I could ignore being like an infiltrator and just say I am one but to me the class is deeper than simply your power choices, it's your style. It would be like having a soldier who isn't good at combat or an engineer who isn't a tech expert. For that reason engineer wouldn't work for me either, because I simply do not fight like an engineer and I'm certainly no tech expert. I actually had planned on my character constantly complaining about new fangled gadgets and be terrible at fighting synthetic enemies because he's focused on study of organics races and medicine. The way a sentinel is described as a support class using crowd control and healing simply fits my character to a T. It's simply a case that I would rather have combat talents than biotics, or even just a fully tech talents instead. More importantly I want to be a medic, which in the game are always Engineers and Sentinels. With the current set up, a infiltrator cannot even choose the medicine or neural shock skills. Essentially I want the playstyle of a Sentinel with combat/tech or full tech abilities, basically a class that doesn't exist. Thane is actually a good example of this. Many think he is an infiltrator due to his stealth and sniper rifle playstyle, plus he is an assassin which is a specialization of an infiltrator. Howeve rhe uses combat/biotics which actually by game definition makes him a vanguard, his class passive skill also matches the same stat bonuses a vanguard gets. I've just come to accept that I cannot make the type of character that I really want to play with the current system, but this doesn't make sense from an in universe perspective.
This brought up the thought, why can't I? As the system stands it's actually a little silly. Why is there some law that an adept cannot go pay for classes and get some advanced training with a shotgun? Why can't an engineer go buy the program for tech armor? Why can't an infiltrator have been a doctor at some point in his life? Why can't a vanguard somehow get the disruptor ammo mod? Why can't a sentinel have an L5 implant? At first this didn't seem like that big of a deal when we are talking about something like an adept not being able to expertly use a shotgun. However when it's something like an infiltrator cannot have ever been a doctor, that is actually saying that a type of character is completely impossible. With any class system we are limiting creativity to a certain degree and the tradeoff is that we get a greater amount of uniqueness in that we are the only ones with these certain skills. I wonder though if we have taken it to far when we say certain types of characters are impossible, merely to preserve that uniqueness. There are many other ways we are unique, so I think it may be worth sacrificing some of the class uniqueness for the sake of creativity because that is what this entire site is suppose to be about.
That brings us to the other reason classes exist. The classes were created for the purpose of balancing a video game. In the context of an rp they make less sense as we are merely limited the roleplay potential of our characters. For example tech armor is limited to a single class for gameplay purposes, but within the actual story there is no reason that an engineer could not go to the store and buy the equipment to do it. The more I thought about it, the more it seemed stupid to tell someone who wanted to do that no, engineers can't do that because... um... they can't. Thinking of a solution to this is difficult however, because I would rather not discard the classes entirely.
The first solution would be to make power choices largely unlimited to anything you wanted. This option allows for maximum creativity, while still retaining some of that uniqueness of the classes. The only limiting factor would be where an in universe explanation applies. Soldiers, Adepts, and Vanguards would not be able to use tech powers because that requires someone to continually micromanage the omni-tools complex systems. Soldiers, Engineers, and Infiltrators would still not be able to use biotics because they were never exposed to eezo. At the end of the day, the classes would remain unique through their class passive talent boost which could not be changed and most importantly by the description of the style in what they preform on the battlefield. To use my case as an example, I would still have the Sentinel class passive power and still entirely fit the description of the role a sentinel fills.
The second solution would be more simple. With this we would allow every person to add any single power or perhaps one passive and one active. That is provided it could be explained in canon, a non biotic could still not have a biotic power. This way they could still get that one critical item that is important to their character and we'd still retain more of each classes uniqueness. This solution is less ideal as it would however still not make sense in some areas. As in why can't an adept have advanced training in both shotguns and assault rifles. Technically it really should not be impossible. This choice wouldn't allow me to make the character I really want, I'd still be forced to take biotics, but it could solve the problem for other people and that is what matters to me. I'm fine with not getting what I want, but I want to make sure you guys get what is important to your character's story.
Keep in mind with both of these solutions, I think perhaps the most powerful powers would still only be one per class. As in an soldier could have tactical cloak, but not adrenaline rush as well. Or a sentinel could pick combat drone, but not have tech armor as well. However again this is a situation where in universe it doesn't make much sense, it should be possible for someone to have both. This dilemma comes down to how much balance do we want. Really balance is far less a problem here than other sites such as Bleached Soul. The nature of bleach attracted a more childish roleplayers and power players who had to have all the best stuff, which hopefully Mass Effect won't attract. Also we are rarely going to fight against each other, so really balance is not as an important an issue. Though do we really want a engineer to be able to use combat drone, tactical cloak, and tech armor? However just because someone wants those powers doesn't automatically mean the person is a power player, it could have relevance to their character's personality. Also in universe it really should be possible for someone to have those powers, even if they are strong. It is limited by the universe already to some degree. Such as it requires a certain kind of biotic amp to charge and another to do singularity, we could merely say it is impossible to have both which seems to be the case in canon. Similarly we could say that an omni-tool doesn't have the power to hold applications for both tactical cloak and tech armor. In the video game we do see engineers with both tech armor and combat drone, so there is some example of such things being possible.
So this is my dilemma and the choice here will radically change the future of the site and our roleplay. Thus I felt it would be wrong for me alone to make this decision. I'm conflicted on where my opinion lays. On the one hand I'm very worried about power players an compromising the uniqueness of the classes. On the other hand however I feel it is kind of stupid to say a person cannot have a power when there is no in universe reason they can't. Also I feel this site should be as much about creativity as possible and I don't want to infringe upon our roleplay for the sake of safety against power players or so the classes remain closer to the game. At the end of the day I somewhat land on that we should allow as much choice as possible.
Enough with the rant, I need your opinions. This basically comes down to how we should limit things, how important to you is balance to prevent power players versus uniqueness of classes versus creativity of roleplay. Each of the below options is essentially a sliding scale of conservative to liberal, most balance with less creativity to most creativity with less balance. Essentially I am asking two questions.
Should we...
A.) Keep things the way they are. (Closest to the game, most uniqueness, but limits creativity, with no in universe reason for not allowing something.)
B.) Change things for most creativity. (For greatest creativity, screw video game balance. We only use in universe explanations to limit things. Non-biotics cannot have biotics, Soldier/Adept cannot do tech, but otherwise anything goes.)
C.) Change things but only very limited. (Allow 1 or 2 or 3 power to be chosen outside of class, with in universe explanations limiting things. However there is no real in universe reason why they cannot have more than that number.)
If we do change things, then the second question is then how should most powerful class exclusive powers be handled?
A.) Do we allow anything? (Only in universe explanations limit choices. A soldier cannot take singularity.)
B.) Allow some? (Only in universe explanations limit choices. We can invent reasons to limit things we feel are to powerful.)
C.) Allow swapping? (You could have one class exclusive power outside of class. Engineer gives up combat drone to have tech armor, vanguard gives up charge to have singularity. This is somewhat odd as some in game have tech armor and combat drone, but we ignore that for balance.)
These are not are only options written in stone, if you have suggestions of other ways we can do this, please put them forward.
It started with the fact that while I've chosen the sentinel class, it doesn't really fit how I'd envisioned my character. My character has become rather combat oriented and it somewhat seems wrong for me to have biotic, tech, and fight physically even if I don't have any combat related powers. Honestly I could do away with the biotics, which would then make me an infiltrator. That however doesn't seem like much of a solution as really there would be nothing stealthy about my character. I plan on frequently being in melee combat using a riot shield and baton in order to make my character appear like a swat officer and beat away people so I can heal teammates. This fighting in melee combat and using little to no stealth seems like the antithesis of the infiltrator. I don't even want to have tactical cloak, tech armor just feels like it would be the best power for both a swat officer and a medic to have. More importantly I want to be a medic, which in the game are always Engineers and Sentinels. With the current set up, a infiltrator cannot even choose the medicine or neural shock skills.
Of course I could ignore being like an infiltrator and just say I am one but to me the class is deeper than simply your power choices, it's your style. It would be like having a soldier who isn't good at combat or an engineer who isn't a tech expert. For that reason engineer wouldn't work for me either, because I simply do not fight like an engineer and I'm certainly no tech expert. I actually had planned on my character constantly complaining about new fangled gadgets and be terrible at fighting synthetic enemies because he's focused on study of organics races and medicine. The way a sentinel is described as a support class using crowd control and healing simply fits my character to a T. It's simply a case that I would rather have combat talents than biotics, or even just a fully tech talents instead. More importantly I want to be a medic, which in the game are always Engineers and Sentinels. With the current set up, a infiltrator cannot even choose the medicine or neural shock skills. Essentially I want the playstyle of a Sentinel with combat/tech or full tech abilities, basically a class that doesn't exist. Thane is actually a good example of this. Many think he is an infiltrator due to his stealth and sniper rifle playstyle, plus he is an assassin which is a specialization of an infiltrator. Howeve rhe uses combat/biotics which actually by game definition makes him a vanguard, his class passive skill also matches the same stat bonuses a vanguard gets. I've just come to accept that I cannot make the type of character that I really want to play with the current system, but this doesn't make sense from an in universe perspective.
This brought up the thought, why can't I? As the system stands it's actually a little silly. Why is there some law that an adept cannot go pay for classes and get some advanced training with a shotgun? Why can't an engineer go buy the program for tech armor? Why can't an infiltrator have been a doctor at some point in his life? Why can't a vanguard somehow get the disruptor ammo mod? Why can't a sentinel have an L5 implant? At first this didn't seem like that big of a deal when we are talking about something like an adept not being able to expertly use a shotgun. However when it's something like an infiltrator cannot have ever been a doctor, that is actually saying that a type of character is completely impossible. With any class system we are limiting creativity to a certain degree and the tradeoff is that we get a greater amount of uniqueness in that we are the only ones with these certain skills. I wonder though if we have taken it to far when we say certain types of characters are impossible, merely to preserve that uniqueness. There are many other ways we are unique, so I think it may be worth sacrificing some of the class uniqueness for the sake of creativity because that is what this entire site is suppose to be about.
That brings us to the other reason classes exist. The classes were created for the purpose of balancing a video game. In the context of an rp they make less sense as we are merely limited the roleplay potential of our characters. For example tech armor is limited to a single class for gameplay purposes, but within the actual story there is no reason that an engineer could not go to the store and buy the equipment to do it. The more I thought about it, the more it seemed stupid to tell someone who wanted to do that no, engineers can't do that because... um... they can't. Thinking of a solution to this is difficult however, because I would rather not discard the classes entirely.
The first solution would be to make power choices largely unlimited to anything you wanted. This option allows for maximum creativity, while still retaining some of that uniqueness of the classes. The only limiting factor would be where an in universe explanation applies. Soldiers, Adepts, and Vanguards would not be able to use tech powers because that requires someone to continually micromanage the omni-tools complex systems. Soldiers, Engineers, and Infiltrators would still not be able to use biotics because they were never exposed to eezo. At the end of the day, the classes would remain unique through their class passive talent boost which could not be changed and most importantly by the description of the style in what they preform on the battlefield. To use my case as an example, I would still have the Sentinel class passive power and still entirely fit the description of the role a sentinel fills.
The second solution would be more simple. With this we would allow every person to add any single power or perhaps one passive and one active. That is provided it could be explained in canon, a non biotic could still not have a biotic power. This way they could still get that one critical item that is important to their character and we'd still retain more of each classes uniqueness. This solution is less ideal as it would however still not make sense in some areas. As in why can't an adept have advanced training in both shotguns and assault rifles. Technically it really should not be impossible. This choice wouldn't allow me to make the character I really want, I'd still be forced to take biotics, but it could solve the problem for other people and that is what matters to me. I'm fine with not getting what I want, but I want to make sure you guys get what is important to your character's story.
Keep in mind with both of these solutions, I think perhaps the most powerful powers would still only be one per class. As in an soldier could have tactical cloak, but not adrenaline rush as well. Or a sentinel could pick combat drone, but not have tech armor as well. However again this is a situation where in universe it doesn't make much sense, it should be possible for someone to have both. This dilemma comes down to how much balance do we want. Really balance is far less a problem here than other sites such as Bleached Soul. The nature of bleach attracted a more childish roleplayers and power players who had to have all the best stuff, which hopefully Mass Effect won't attract. Also we are rarely going to fight against each other, so really balance is not as an important an issue. Though do we really want a engineer to be able to use combat drone, tactical cloak, and tech armor? However just because someone wants those powers doesn't automatically mean the person is a power player, it could have relevance to their character's personality. Also in universe it really should be possible for someone to have those powers, even if they are strong. It is limited by the universe already to some degree. Such as it requires a certain kind of biotic amp to charge and another to do singularity, we could merely say it is impossible to have both which seems to be the case in canon. Similarly we could say that an omni-tool doesn't have the power to hold applications for both tactical cloak and tech armor. In the video game we do see engineers with both tech armor and combat drone, so there is some example of such things being possible.
So this is my dilemma and the choice here will radically change the future of the site and our roleplay. Thus I felt it would be wrong for me alone to make this decision. I'm conflicted on where my opinion lays. On the one hand I'm very worried about power players an compromising the uniqueness of the classes. On the other hand however I feel it is kind of stupid to say a person cannot have a power when there is no in universe reason they can't. Also I feel this site should be as much about creativity as possible and I don't want to infringe upon our roleplay for the sake of safety against power players or so the classes remain closer to the game. At the end of the day I somewhat land on that we should allow as much choice as possible.
Enough with the rant, I need your opinions. This basically comes down to how we should limit things, how important to you is balance to prevent power players versus uniqueness of classes versus creativity of roleplay. Each of the below options is essentially a sliding scale of conservative to liberal, most balance with less creativity to most creativity with less balance. Essentially I am asking two questions.
Should we...
A.) Keep things the way they are. (Closest to the game, most uniqueness, but limits creativity, with no in universe reason for not allowing something.)
B.) Change things for most creativity. (For greatest creativity, screw video game balance. We only use in universe explanations to limit things. Non-biotics cannot have biotics, Soldier/Adept cannot do tech, but otherwise anything goes.)
C.) Change things but only very limited. (Allow 1 or 2 or 3 power to be chosen outside of class, with in universe explanations limiting things. However there is no real in universe reason why they cannot have more than that number.)
If we do change things, then the second question is then how should most powerful class exclusive powers be handled?
A.) Do we allow anything? (Only in universe explanations limit choices. A soldier cannot take singularity.)
B.) Allow some? (Only in universe explanations limit choices. We can invent reasons to limit things we feel are to powerful.)
C.) Allow swapping? (You could have one class exclusive power outside of class. Engineer gives up combat drone to have tech armor, vanguard gives up charge to have singularity. This is somewhat odd as some in game have tech armor and combat drone, but we ignore that for balance.)
These are not are only options written in stone, if you have suggestions of other ways we can do this, please put them forward.